Data-based pricing strategies with Ashlyn Carter

Akua: Welcome back to our money talk series where we are having the conversations about money that actually matter. And you are going to love today’s episode. But before we hop in, I know so many of us as business owners, we are currently getting ready for tax season. We are in the thick of it. And so we are providing a free resource, our tax filing checklist.

And this checklist helps you get all of your documents ready and organized that you feel confident going into tax season. So head to our show notes to download that checklist. And let’s get into the episode. Only one word can describe today’s episode on the unbreakable business podcast, and that word is gold.

Okay. Today’s episode is pure gold. Ashton Carter, who is a copywriter joins on the show to talk about pricing strategy, and she does an incredible job breaking down. Her full proof formula of how business owners can set up their pricing common pricing mistakes. Business owners are making, and we get to hear her own pricing journey as an entrepreneur.

Like I said, this conversation is filled with so many tangible tips, so many things that you can walk away from, and you are going to enjoy this episode just as much as I did. So let’s get into it. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship.

This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks, and unshakable grit that builds businesses that last. Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable.

Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going. Ashlynn, welcome to the Unbreakable Business Podcast. I’m so excited that you are here. How are we doing?

Ashlyn: I’m so pumped. I love being on this. You know, I’m such a honey book stand, have been for a long time, and I love the combos y’all bring to the table.

Yeah, but we love you

Akua: girl. That’s why we brought you back. So we’re, we’re so excited that you’re here and you guys definitely will link it in the show notes, but Ashton did an amazing episode, um, on the independent business podcast. And I just loved just, we were talking about your story and just how you honestly have built the business that you have today.

And it was just so phenomenal and just. It’s so real, so transparent. And so y’all definitely go back and listen to this episode, but we had to bring her back because one thing about Ashlyn, she delivers, okay? She literally delivers. So we are talking about today, all about pricing strategy. And so we were like, Ashlyn is the perfect person.

So y’all I’m so excited because you’re going to be in for a treat and Ashlyn, thank you again for being here.

Ashlyn: I love it. Absolutely. Pricing as a words girl. I’ve made every mistake you can and have learned from it. So I’m here to um, Hopefully share a lot of that.

Akua: Yes. Okay. So this is what I want to start the episode off with.

Okay. We always hear the term, the always a saying, charge your worth then add tax. Do you agree or disagree?

Ashlyn: Literally vomit. So the problem with that phrase is it ignores Economic principles. You, when you’re the charge, what you’re worth, first of all, like you have, you are, I believe created by God, like you have innate value.

You’re you’ve got value. You need to disconnect that and look at the actual craft itself, the thing that you do and what the cost of goods are to get that. So you have to start with a realistic look at what the market demand is for it and what is average going great for anything. So you could be the best, like the whole charge, what you’re worth.

You could be the best, like underwater ballet basket weaving instructor ever. But like, if the market doesn’t want that, we have to take that into consideration. So I think a better pricing look is if you can look at the cost of goods for it. And then typically I would say that is about 40 percent of. The price, the rest, the 60%, the rest of it, that includes your taxes, that includes the profit, that’s going to include any reinvesting in your business, so that’s a better formula to go off of than the whole charge what you’re worth, add taxes thing.

Akua: I love that because I think, again, it makes us be more strategic and think more logically about our pricing because if like charge what you’re worth and then add tax, like, it’s based off of feeling. What does that even mean? Yeah. Like, yes. Facts. And it’s based off a feeling. And we all just, I just said it two days ago to somebody.

I’m like, charge your worth. And it’s like, what does, but surely though, what, what does it mean? Like, we

Ashlyn: are entrepreneurs. We get in our feels. Like I asked me on one day and I’m ready to charge this. Ask me on a bad day. And I’m like, well, you know, like we are up and down roller coasters. So that’s why if you can have more of a data, like let the data tell the story under prices and figure it out from that.

It’s a better. benchmark to go off of.

Akua: Much better benchmark. And then you feel more confident too, as you’re like setting up your prices. And so one thing I wanted to ask you, since we’re talking about feelings. Okay. What is the difference between fact based pricing and feelings based pricing?

Ashlyn: Yeah. I mean, fact is going to consider your cost of goods.

So a lot of people also forget that as the entrepreneur, you’re getting paid twice. You’re getting paid if you, if you are still executing the craft, you have to kind of think about when you’re, I’m going to talk to the service provider You have to think about if you weren’t doing the thing, the client call, the copywriting, the floral design, you would be paying somebody, a contractor, a vendor, their rate, whatever going market rate is to do that.

And so then, and you also add on your hard costs, software costs that go into it, the, the foam, the, like the stems, anything else. And so you have to look, and those are hard numbers. They also, oh my gosh, last year, our profit margin was just like, it was like hungry, angry hippo. It just, it looked totally different because you’re going to see your cost of goods may go up sometimes in the year and then they may come down.

And so again, if you’re going off feelings, then you’re not also taking to account those fluctuations that may be happening. So that’s, I think those are the big differences in a facts based approach and a feelings based approach. And. We, but there is, I will say there’s some element of feelings based pricing because psychology comes into play in that there, I have a perspective when I’m paying 97 for an offer that I’m going to get a certain thing.

Whereas if I was paying 5, 000 for an offer, I have a different expectation. So that, that could be feelings. That’s also a little factual too. Like that’s. human nature. And so, um, you have to, there’s, it’s, there’s a few different things that go into that price point, but those are probably the big differences that I would say I see in them.

One recognizes cost of goods and the other does not.

Akua: Yeah, no. I think that’s again, such a good point. I think it just reminds us business owners of like, think about yourself as like times when you are pricing your services, whether you’re just starting out or you know, you were like, okay, I know it’s time to up my prices, like really take these things into account.

Like of course, take it like, Think of like your feeling, but don’t make that the major priority. And don’t, don’t make that the driver in terms of defining your prices. Like you have to literally look at the numbers, look at the hard costs in your business, because that’s something that I know I messed up on.

I would love to hear as well for you. What your pricing journey has looked like as a business owner from first starting out to now, you’ve been like, what, 10 years in the game over 10 years?

Ashlyn: Almost nine, nine. Yes.

Akua: Okay. Well, yeah, like nine years in the game. And so, you know, I would love to hear even two with like, what were some of the big, like three mistakes that you made within your pricing journey?

Ashlyn: Just three. Okay. So first of all, I. We like a lot of us do it. We price off competitors. When you’re going to offer a new thing, you go out and you see, well, what is everybody else charging for it? And that’s not, that’s not all terrible because you do kind of need to see like, what is the average going rate for it?

But if you just like match that, or you try to price beat, like you. Come in right under it. Um, I think it’s Dan Martell that he says it in the book, buy back your time. He’s like, don’t price yourself the way that other businesses are because they’re not making money. I’ve seen the insides of a lot of businesses.

And it’s true when you look at, I think it’s like 60 percent of small business owners don’t pay themselves a regular paycheck. Like there’s a lot of money issues in these other businesses that we’re looking at when we’re like, Oh, charge. Okay. I’m going to, you know, do that. But that’s what a lot of us do to answer your point about like, that was one of the first things I did is I, when I was trying to figure out what my prices were, I was just like, okay, well what are other people charging to write a website or anything like that?

And then over time I learned to look at the different aspects that go into it. So that was one thing I think that I’ve messed up for sure. Let’s see. Another pricing issue that I’ve made, I did not pay myself regularly. My first. Like nine months in business. I didn’t know how I knew how to sell. That was what my background was.

Um, but I had no idea what to do with the money on the back side of it. And so I just didn’t do anything with it. I just kept it there to this day. There’s like 30, 000 that came in that I could not tell you what happened to, I don’t, it got spent in some capacity. I literally have no idea where it went. I didn’t, cause I didn’t know, I didn’t know how to write myself a paycheck.

I didn’t know how to make it a regular paycheck. The book profit first was really helpful in helping me unlock and realize, okay, like the money, this is another one of the best things I did was implement that system about everything that comes and goes to one folder. And then you just divvy out based on.

Your needs. So if you know, I have a 50 percent profit margin because you know, your cost of goods. Cool. Then I put, it’s literally like Dave Ramsey, foldering up at 50 percent there, 10 percent in the profit, 20 percent in this folder owner’s draw. Like you, that was the most. Helpful system. It sounds like you’ve maybe read that too.

Akua: Well, yeah. And Mike McAllister was on the show as well, talking about profit first business. So we will also link that episode, um, in the show notes on the independent business podcast. And that episode was so good. And so many business owners have just said such amazing things about him. And truly it has saved their business.

So absolutely. Yeah. People love the profit first and I’ve started implementing as well. Some of that, and that has helped me a lot. And even honey book. Now we have like our tax saving buckets. So even, you know, kind of similarly a little bit to that system of like, where when you get in, like when you’re getting paid through HoneyBook, it can separate things to help you prepare for taxes.

Like even just something like that is such a great way to help you get started and just really think of having a profit first business. Yes.

Ashlyn: Like, why are we doing this anyway? Like it’s, and it doesn’t, it’s not even much. So that’s, I like how he talks about that 10%, just put 10 percent aside, 10 percent now, all of a sudden you look up and six months have passed and you’re like, wow, I, This is great.

Um, but that comes back to this. Why pricing? It all comes back to that. Because if you’re, if you’re off, if you’re, if you’re not charging yourself, so you have any margin on your pricing, you’re not going to be able to do that. That’s why figuring out like what is going to go in that cost of goods folder to maybe I’ll like give like kind of two other mistakes there.

I have messed it up. I think I rectify it quickly because I learned in corporate. I, I probably like lawyers, a lot of people in PR, um, you bill your time, you get, you pay, you track your time, track your time, track your time. And I’ve noticed that they’re in the time periods where I don’t recognize, or I think, Oh, that client project will take four hours.

Well, no, it actually narrator, it took her eight hours. Like you have to know that it’s not like, and if we, we do that as creators, we think, Oh, it’s fun. I enjoyed the extra work on it, or, you know, I just want to dig a little bit longer on that client project. Well, that comes at a cost. So being really hyper aware of how many hours that you’re putting in every single project and tracking that, and then doing a like revisit.

I was talking, I was at a mastermind the other week and there was a speaker and she looks a lot at business strategies and she says in her business, they do a quarterly time audit. And I was like, that’s get in my bag. You’re coming with me. Great idea. Love that. I’m going to start doing that. Yes. Like, because I do think you have to.

Regularly look and make sure that scope creep in your own projects hasn’t happened. So that’s another kind of mistake that I’ve made. And then the last one, I think I’ve given you four. This is the last

Akua: one.

Ashlyn: I, I let bloat happen and I don’t think I rectify it quickly enough. So I started last year and I’m doing it right now too.

I decided I’m like, that’s the February thing going, looking at all of our expenses. So a lot of those are cost of goods and just cutting. I pick a number. I got this idea from Cody Sanchez. She said she’ll, she’ll pick 20 percent and slice. I was like 20 sounds excessive, but I like the number 16. So I looked through our costs.

I was like, how can I shave 16 percent off? And so now I need to do that again. But I think we were just talking before we hit record about AI, like how can AI, how can you shave your costs?

And then you can still charge higher value and then argue that the price point is a movie in my hands that big value my hands out to the side, big value, but just argue to the client how they’re paying just a fraction of that. Like that’s how you sell, but that you can add more value by. It using AI tools a lot.

Akua: And I love that you brought that up because I was literally thinking in my head of like, when you track your time, of course, you’re going to be able to see, you know, obviously how much work you’re actually putting into your projects, but even tracking like email, all those different types of things, because then you can literally look to see what you can automate or delegate.

Ashlyn: How can you make a honey book template that, you know, that, that, that 15 minute, I’ll just send an email when you do that 10 times on a client project that adds.

Akua: That adds up every time. Two hours at least, yeah. Yeah, and so I love that you brought that up, because like, looking at every single task that you do in your business, and what can you automate or delegate, but like again, like leveraging AI, like you said, we talked about earlier, of like, how AI is just really playing a major role in my business, even outside of like automation.

I mean, you know what I mean? And so I think again, like we We know that it’s there, but we can use it a lot to where like, again, we’re still charging the value, but we’re able to cut costs in so many great ways. Yes.

Ashlyn: And if you, I think a lot of people, sometimes they see the number they should be pricing at and they like freak out.

I can’t do, I can’t, people won’t pay that. They will if you can give, like, how, instead of figuring out how to, like, yes, you need to think about, like, how to cull down on the price as much as possible, how can you stack that puppy with even more value? Like, how can you exponentially give more? How can you, there’s a lot of sawdust that falls off your desk in the middle of creating something that could be repackaged and, Packaged and given to the client as a deliverable that they would find valuable.

So thinking, I think seeing your proper margins in price kind of creatively has to push you to be like, all right, it’s a big number. So how are we going to actually show up and deliver on that.

Akua: Yes, 1000%. And I have done this before, but I like, okay, so I was approached to do a project. It was somebody who had reached out to me and they were like, Hey, like, you know, if this is an hourly based product, it was like, uh, with the government within their state.

And so they, she was looking for contractors and she’s like, Hey, what’s your hourly. And I was in, we talked earlier, have I been on the cusp of like really adjusting a lot of my prices and changing it. And so I was like, okay, my hourly rate, I should have used. A lot of what you suggested of like looking at hard costs and all that stuff.

I went to chat GPT and so, however, I first started with chat GPT. I first was like, Hey, this is a project. What do storytelling strategists on average charged based on experience? Like that’s what I asked it first. Okay. And so then it gave me numbers based on experience. And I said, okay, cool. This is where I’m at.

So I said, this is where I’m at. And then it asked me prompts because I told them, I said, ask me questions to help me figure out what would be the right cost so that I’m not struggling out here. Right. So then I’m not pissed off that I undercharged and I’m not enjoying the work. Right. Like we can all like, I’ve absolutely have been in projects where I felt resentment of like, I should have charged more.

And so I literally just. GPT and it asked me questions of like, okay, what are your heart costs? Like what, like how much do you pay? Like your bills and this and that. And I was like, all right, cool. And it literally gave me the number.

Ashlyn: Do you like the number? You felt good about the number? actually added a little

Akua: bit more to it and then I, and then I gave the number, but yeah, I felt great about the number.

That’s pretty cool. Yeah. So I’m like, again, it can really be like your business partner. Um, and really, again, like really help with that. So all that to say was I wanted to know what your thoughts were on that.

Ashlyn: I love it. I think that, so I would probably, like we were saying too earlier, Chadi G is the best sparring partner.

So I think what I would do is like figure out my hourly and then ask it like, so that’s the thing too, your hourly depends on what you’re doing. Um, like if you’re, there’s some tasks. That I’m doing in my business that are worth 1 sign. There’s other tasks that I’m doing that are worth 4 signs in my business.

And so getting clear on like, what is the task at hand for your hourly? I think for business owners, the best way to figure out your hourly rate is to take what you. Need to make in a year, like what is your salary and divide it by a number of hours worked. So for, if your business is your full time thing, 2000 hours is a good number to divide it by.

So like a hundred thousand, if you made a hundred thousand dollars a year and you worked a full time job, your hourly rate would be about 50 bucks an hour. If a lot of people in my audience, cause I’ve done this exercise in my membership before, and a lot of people are moms are doing part time. And so I actually run my hourly rate off 1200 hours because that, that fudges for holidays, like a 2000 hour year is like, you’re going baby.

But I think a lot of us are, we created our businesses to have the lifestyle freedom and work the number of hours that we want to. So that’s the better number that I’ve found is dividing it. And that number I keep. Cause it helps me remember, like, that’s my CEO number for my hourly rate. So if what I’m doing is at that value point, I think I’m allowed to do it.

But if I could pay somebody a third or a half of that and have the job done, I really need to strongly consider. I’m not doing that thing.

Akua: Yeah. Oh, that is so, so good. And that’s a good point. Like I, like, I love that. And that would have been, again, cause then I would have had a much, and still I was happy with the result anyway, but again, like really, how can we improve?

And so like, yeah, like I should have thought first of those things and then placed it into chat GPT because to your point, yeah, there are smaller tasks that aren’t going to equate to the same, like in terms of cost. And so that’s such a good point. Um, such a good way to look at it. And again, like you can leverage, I love that you call it chatty G, chatty G.

Yeah. Strategy. Um, but I love that. I think that’s such a great way to look at it. And so, um, we talked about this earlier too before recording, but I wanted to bring it into the conversation of for business owners that are like, you know, I’ve been in the game for a while. I think it’s time for me to raise my prices or I guess what are some flags that we need to look out for that indicates that it’s time for us to raise our prices?

That’s one question. And then two, what are some things we should be looking at again to like make those steps to raise our prices?

Ashlyn: So good. Okay. I think if you’re getting like 70, 75 percent close rate. You need to up your price. And that’s how I think a lot of us. And again, I’m speaking for like a lot of our students and our members and our clients, a lot of y’all listening, you get on the phone with somebody, you can sell them.

You can sell, you know, ice to a polar bear. Like you’re, you’re good on the phone. And so I think it does bring in a little bit of a level of, um, rejection when you think about raising your price. But if you are, I would say, yeah, if you’re closing about 70 percent of your leads, I would consider upping it a little.

I think. It’s also a good question to ask. Like we’re looking at everything right now. And I’m thinking, how can we, especially just with the advent of AI, like I said, how can we continue to give that value, but shave hours down? Like if this costs, like we know some of our big messaging projects and campaigns cost 25 hours in manpower to produce, but if we’re now able to use AI to call that down to 18 hours.

Then does the price still need to be that or can I be a little bit more flexible or can I keep the price point where it is and just like Mac daddy out the value because we are still seeing people willing to pay that price point. So like, can I get them even more for more bang for their buck? So those are probably two ways that I think about raising prices.

I think it’s healthy to consider raising. I mean. It’s, it’s, it happens where every few years you look up and you’re like, Oh, we can’t, we haven’t raised our prices at all. And we also have some offers where I’m pretty much like, Nope, that’s staying there. Like that, that is the price point that we’re, we’re going to play the game at that price point.

And I think that’s a. That’s a healthy place to be at, too.

Akua: Yeah, I like that. Those are really realistic benchmarkers to look at to where, because sometimes, too, I didn’t even realize I needed to raise my price until somebody told me. And I think there, and I know I’m not the only one as a business owner that has been through that, where all of a sudden I don’t realize the value of what I’m offering.

Um, I think sometimes we forget. Our talents, just how talented we are. And so like I had, like I said earlier, like I was having someone who’s been helping me revamp the SEO on my website. And you know, she was at, she did my sales page and she just was like, wait, what do you get? And I like listed everything out for her.

So she’s like, let me get this straight. And she listed, it was a lit, like quite a list. And she’s like, you’re getting this. And then you’re like, people are getting this and then you’re charging. I was like, yeah. She’s like, you need to up that.

Ashlyn: We all need friends to tell us that though. I think that yes, raising our prices is something to think about.

But I think the bigger question that I, the more I’m around, like more higher level entrepreneurs and like how they think, and it blows my mind, like it’s profit margin. It is like, that is the game, like how it’s not like. And yeah, cause you know, six figure this seven figure that sure that was your revenue.

What were your margins? How how can you run at 60 40? How can you run at 50 50? Like don’t like how can you shave down that and just have a as fat a profit margin as possible? I cannot remember who it was, but she said one time on instagram real Um, like having a big team isn’t a flex that you think it is and I I it’s like kind of that same thought with like Pricing and your revenue like it’s not the flex.

Do you think it is? The real flex is like what are your margins and how lean can you run? Oh, that’s so fun to think through.

Akua: Yeah, but I think that’s a really I think also to a lot of business owners Need to hear that because I feel like so much right now in our industry, especially Like that’s a lot of people lead with The profit, like I am, you know, a multi six figure business owner and this and that.

And like, there’s so much more to the story that we are not aware of. And I think a lot of us as business owners, um, I know, and I’ve seen the conversations in the room. Like a lot of business owners are very tired of hearing that of like, what’s the real story behind it? For example, what is your profit Marjorie?

Is this, and then I’ll see, is this before taxes or after taxes? Like what is the real story? Cause I think a lot of, a lot of people, we want transparency. We want that rawness and that realness. And I think again, like that. Really, number one just opens up a clearer picture for business owners of like, okay, you don’t have to be like, so focused on the right, like, what is your profit?

Like there’s other factors that are so important to really consider when you’re looking at just the finances of your business and how you want to be able to make more money. So I really love that you brought that up. I love it. And that

Ashlyn: 60, 40, like 60, 40 is my dream margin to run. We did not hit that last year.

We were, we were much higher to 70, but I, that first number, I want to shout out Sheena Skidmore and she does finances for creative. She was the first name that put that 60 40 on my radar. And I remember when I first heard it, I was like, there is. Abso freaking lutely no way that I can run at those kind of margins in a creative business, because you just, yeah, you think like, I can’t charge, I can’t, it’s a, it’s an envelope, I can’t charge more than 50 cents for it with calligraphy on it, but you just.

You have to realize what things are worth. And if you, if you want to do this and if you want to make money with it, figuring out like people will always, I tell my students this all the time, people will always pay to have a problem solved if it’s a real problem for them. Yes.

Akua: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay. So what is your fool proof formula for pricing yourself to be successful and sustainable as a business owner?

Ashlyn: Okay. So what I do is I take a spreadsheet tab two on my spreadsheet that I go to all the time with finances and I. First up, figure out the hard costs. So what are the, again, physical people? I think y’all, you’re, it always, it’s easy for us to think through like the film, the camera, that kind of thing. If it is, I get this question a lot.

If it is something that you are using on multiple people, whether it is a piece of like honey book, but we use for all of our clients, a camera, but I use for all of my clients, then I take and. With a physical product, you should probably count in depreciation, but like I kind of take the costs for that, like in divvy it up by, if we take on 24 full service clients a year, divided by 24.

So I know like, okay, I pay a thousand dollars for that software year, but one 24th of it is really what it costs. So that’s the first thing that I figure out and then I drop down and I figure out what are the labor costs that go into it. So what are the labor costs when Ashlyn, the copywriter is working on it and her rate, I’m just going to round up and pull some numbers.

Her rate is a 200 an hour. When is say it were me doing this piece of it. What is the gifting of the client packages? Well, gifting is not a 200. An hour gig wrapping paper. I could pay my six year old son to, you know, so what is that cost? What is admin costs that go into it? So like, what are the different hats that you wear?

If it’s you, and you have to think that way, because if you were in the goal, you know, you’re trying to replace yourself at different places in business. If you were going to pay somebody else to do this, what’s the going rate? What is, what could you pay? Should we pay somebody 20 an hour to wrap presents?

Whatever it is, figuring that out. Take that. And then what I would do is double it and add 20%. So that is my foolproof formula. And then that gives you, that gives you so much room to run specials to run like that. So I see a lot of people get to where they come to me and we’re talking about. You know, doing a promotion campaign or launching.

And if there’s no wiggle room at all to come down and give a little coupon or, you know, run a few times a year and all we can do is like add an extra, it’s just, it’s nice to be able to have the freedom to. Pull back a little bit and run a sale or run a promo, but then it accommodates your room for taxes.

It accommodates a little 10 percent profit margin, and it gives you room to reinvest. So that’s a really good, like start there. And then you are allowed to bring your feelings back into the chat and see like, okay, looking at that number, like. I will say this too. We have one offer where I run that on and I’m like, I’m not comfortable charging that.

I want that price to be at a thousand dollars, even though, and I just have to know the margins on that offer are not where I really want them to be, but that’s okay. Because then they’ll pull into another offer. Um, but at least if you can start with the formula and then let your feelings back in, that’s helpful.

Akua: Yes. I love that. And I think again, it’s. What is that foundational piece and you’re thinking to like business owners, like if you are listening and you’re like, Hey, I’m a little bit early in the game and you’re like, okay, well how do I figure out my labor costs? We talked about that earlier with the time tracking.

So like, really make sure then that’s where you’re clear. But I love that you shared that because that’s also laying the foundation of you building a team. Like if you’re wanting to scale, you know what I mean? And that’s the hardest piece is trying to figure out when you’re trying to wanting to bring somebody on, how, like how much to charge them.

But if you’ve already done that. time tracking. So you can really just get a realistic picture of the labor cost. Then you can confidently go in and be like, okay, I know exactly who I’m looking for. I know exactly what I want them to do. And I know exactly how much I’m going to like pay them. Preach.

Ashlyn: Yes.

Yes. And that happens sooner than like, wouldn’t you say, I feel like the whole hiring conversation or bringing on somebody to help. Even in just a, just a support capacity, not as an employee, nothing like that, just to like share a little bit of the labor load or help you stay in your zone, which is like the actual like crafting and deliverable and take some of the admin off.

Um, like that happens a lot sooner than you think in your business. And. It’s I don’t know. I always thought that was like a big girl problem And then it creeps up on you and you’re like I can getting nothing done I’m not doing the thing that I set out to do because I’m you know, doing all these other things.

Um,

Akua: yeah Yeah 1000 percent and I love that cuz it’s true it creeps up on you and then you were like really like you don’t realize that you Need it until you need it and I think again like when you’re actually taking the time to really Put intentionality, but your price is going fact based versus instead of feelings, right?

And letting that be your driver, then you’re going to feel much more confident when that time does come because some like I know myself, I was like, I need to hire somebody. And I did not look at any of these numbers. I did not. I just hurried up and found somebody. This is a good enough rate and but then.

You’re like month per month it compounds. Like it starts to add up and then you’re like, oh, like I need to really . There are the margins. You gotta go look at the margin. Like, do I have the capacity? And I’ll be transparent. Like, this is not the first time I’ve tried to hire somebody and I’ve had to let them go after a month or two because I was like, damn, I did not make it far.

Ashlyn: I love that you said ’cause yes, that is what, and I’ve messed up that too. I’ll bring, I’d bring in somebody to help before I like figured all this out and I was. I had them at a rate where then you look at it and you’re like, Whoa, this is not going to be sustainable. And you either have to have that hard conversation or you have to just stick with it.

And then, you know, figure, get creative somewhere. Get creative and make more money. Yeah.

Akua: 1000%. And I, and I learned that. And so now I’ve had somebody who writes my blogs, manages my Pinterest that. Like I’ve worked with her now for a year and over a year now. And I was just so excited to make it there because I was like, I, but I was watching my numbers.

The whole time because again, like I was like, I really need her and I don’t want to be back in that place. And I’m like, even if it’s just that one person, right, just that one person. And so I think starting small there and then I now I’m like working with an OBM and like figuring that out, but I’m starting small there.

So like I’m starting very small. So that’s, I think that’s to the point of like. If, if you’re not there, you’re going to get there and really implement these foundational things. So you’re not going to end up making the mistakes that I made because I feel like if I would have done that earlier, it would have saved me a lot, like the things that you suggested, it would have saved me a lot of headache.

Um, and so, and then also too, like you can start small, like start small, start from there and, and, you know, and, and work your way up. Like you don’t have to, and that was my mistake where I just jumped in. Oh yeah.

Ashlyn: Yeah. You think you’re supposed to, yeah. Employee. No, like start. I love that. Start small that I still think team building is probably the hardest part of business ownership, but like, start with a project that, but, and that’s, this gives you if, especially if it’s your client service or it’s part of your, like not bringing them on to necessarily.

I learned that I mentioned him earlier, Dan Martell talks about that and buy back your time. And I read it and I was like, that’s why, that’s why it broke down sometimes because I would bring in somebody that was trying to do something without really fixing the like fulfillment process. And if you can bring in somebody to help you on the fulfillment, then you get to kind of pull up the ladder to more marketing and sales and leadership stuff and get a little bit out of the weeds.

But bringing the, it gives you the freedom and the know how to bring them in. That was some great advice that I didn’t get until late. But bring somebody in for a project

Akua: before you

Ashlyn: pull them in on, like, any kind of employee status or first, like, date before you get married.

Akua: Yes. Oh, that’s such a good point.

Because also, too, like, you get to understand people’s work styles, what type of leader you are, and all that type of stuff. Like, that’s such a I should have done that too, but here we go. I know, I know. Hindsight is 20, 20. So, um, yes, that is such a good point. And so for business owners, right. We raise our prices.

And it is always a scary thing. And I think the biggest part I want to ask is how do we gain our confidence that when people do question our prices, right? Like, cause it’s going to happen on a sales call. It always does. And, and so, you know, how do we gain our confidence within our new prices? So that if people do, we’re approaching like, Ooh, like that’s expensive, this and that.

And like, I, like, I remembered like when I first started out, I said, okay, well like maybe, and now I’m like, nah, you going to pay me or don’t like, you know what I mean? But I think I want us to talk about like that confidence where like we are. When we do, uh, you know, have our new pricing, how do we stick to our guns and feel just really good about it so that we are advocating for ourselves more as a business owner.

Ashlyn: Okay. I just like scribbled furiously on a sticky note, like stick a quarter in me. I freaking love sales calls. I love this. I love this question. So I think first of all, the confidence is going to come when you know that number, when you know your cost of goods, like, because when you do a feelings based price, you’re kind of like, if anybody questions it.

Well, then you start your house of cards. You don’t, you don’t know why you have that price. I don’t know. She charged it. I thought I’d charge it too. So of course I’ll negotiate with you. I used to be so afraid on sales calls to say my price and my number that I would always end the call. I would say like, all right, I’m going to make your proposal and I’ll get back to you.

No, you need to go on a discovery call or a sales call. And by the end of it, you need to say exactly that package is 9, 750. We can break that into three payments each, like, you know, you need to be able to look them in the eye, not totally sweat through your shirt and say your number to them. And I was not, I would never, I didn’t do that for years because I was just terrified.

So what got me over that hump, first of all, was proper pricing. So I understand how to. How I came to that number. So like, come at me, like, and if you, not that they would have, but just like having, just being able to be like, no, I know that this is what it costs. This is what goes into it. I think one thing that helps too, I am a big fan of listing your pricing on your website, or at least communicating some sort of radar.

I’ve compared it to, you know, when you go to a fancy restaurant and it says like market price for the fish and you’re like, especially if you’re with a group of people, you don’t know, it’s like kind of, you know, like what, what if it’s like, 150 fish. I don’t know. Um, so that, that’s psychological. A lot of times if we don’t know the price or we don’t see it, we assume that it’s high or that we can’t afford it.

So if you’re able to even say, I’ve told like wedding people in our industry, can you give them a percentage of budget? Most of our brides. Spend 4 percent of their entire budget on paper, or most of our clients spend between a thousand and 5, 000. Our average price starts at 10, 000. Like, can you give them some sort of, this is when the copywriter in me comes out, because the whole purpose of that page is to get them to the next step in your process, which is likely getting them on that discovery call.

So I like to give people some sort of sticker range. So when they do get on the call with you. They’re not like completely, completely sticker shocked. And then I think on the call itself, doing a little bit of price anchoring is helpful as well, where you, and I love, I, I teach our sales call script. Like I love sales calls and I think it’s cause I screwed them up for years.

And so I was like, dang it, I got to figure this out. And, um, I, if you can, what’s helped me is if I’m, I’d had one with a client this morning and being able to say, okay, some people have brought us in to. and spent this amount of money and we’ve done all this kind of stuff. But like, if you can honestly tell them some people pay that, I don’t think you need that.

I think you need this. It is this price point and they’re able to kind of anchor in their head. And obviously you’ll do that with integrity and not inflate prices or make up some story. But I think that helps people as well and it reminds you like the value that you’re bringing to them. So those are, those are a few things that have really helped me.

With saying that number on the call and not 100 percent freaking out or just naughty. I mean, I did it for years. I wouldn’t say the number because I was like, they’re going to say no, or I can’t, I’m so scared to even say my price that I would rather just type it and send it in an email and so, um, getting over that is just, It will, it’s, that’s a boss level next step up that if you can, um, it feels really good.

Akua: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Such good tips. And like, number one, again, if you go back and actually take the time to lay out your pricing, you’re going to feel really confident about that number. But also, yeah, I have my prices on my, my website. And so I think again, like, I know, I know that’s still as a topic of conversation for business owners, whether to have pricing on your website or not.

I am a yes. To that, but I love that even like people, if they aren’t like give a range, like give a marker that where they understand

Ashlyn: good word.

Akua: Yes. Like give them a marker to where they really understand. Okay. Like, can I meet this or not? Right. Cause that’s going to save more of your time and their time.

Right. You don’t want to be in these sales calls, but like they may not be a fit for you at all price wise, you know? And so I think that’s why I’m like, just put it on your site or at least give them a marker to where like they’re crystal crystal clear. This has been so, so helpful. And so is there anything else that business owners should take into account for their pricing?

Ashlyn: Yeah. Like I study sales calls, learn how to do a sales call, learn how to say your price with assurance on a phone call. That just, I think it’s a lost art or may it’s, we think about sales and sales calls and a lot of it you’ll think about, you know, like the guy that calls you to like reduce your phone bill or whatever, but like you can do them really well.

And like your, your sales call doesn’t have to turn into like a strategy call or a coaching call or like a, You know, it, it can be a really great time of service with. your clientele and it doesn’t have to be long. Like you can do it in 20 minutes. Remember you’re tracking your time. So yeah, I would say like, that’s something I messed up on.

I didn’t really start getting into the weeds on learning how to do those well. And then, oh, then your system just becomes so good. Like our honey book we send out are like our. Our inquiry process, somebody fills out an application, they get the client magazine that’s now all in HoneyBook, and then we send them after a proposal that again, we’re just shaving as much time off.

It feels very custom and white glove, which is our goal with our clients, they’re paying a lot of money, but we, we lean a lot on HoneyBook templates to do that. And, um, Yeah. I’m just, I’m really grateful for the tools that are there because I’m always looking at how many hours is something that takes, but I want that like high end feel when people are going through the process.

Akua: Yes. Oh, I love that. That’s such great advice. And so for you now, like you said, nine years in the game, um, where, like, what are your pricing challenges? Like you said earlier, like, right? Profit margin. What are some pricing things that you are working through right now? Has anything like unexpectedly come up where you’re like, Oh, or like, yeah,

Ashlyn: That’s good.

I think I sometimes price something and then I look up and I’ve over delivered and I think a lot of us do that. I’m not like saying that to like. I think a lot of us are just, you look up and you’re like, well, shoot, that was, I was just going to spend, you know, an hour a week on that. And here I have, you know, so I think that’s one thing now is making sure like, once I put like sticking to it, I guess, putting it like for a membership or for a subscription, how to over deliver, but also not.

the time bank. That’s it. That’s what I’m trying to figure out now. So how can you like add more value, add more value. One thing that’s really helpful. Myron Golden talks about this is totally from him. He, I’ve heard him talk about the idea of anyway offers. And I love that. What were you going to create anyway?

And then how can you like, what were you already going to make? What were you already going to do? And then how can you bake that in? So that’s kind of a new approach that I’m bringing to. Say like our, our weekly copy template subscription or to my membership is, you know, I need to give, and I want to over deliver in those, but I also can’t, you know, all of a sudden spend 10 hours a week on one of those because I’ve got other duties.

So then how can I give them value by giving them things that I was already making anyway?

Akua: I love you. Yeah. Good

Ashlyn: old Myron Goldman.

Akua: I know. I just discovered him last year. I heard him speak at a conference and I was like, so good, blown away. He’s phenomenal. So we will also be linking Myron Goldman to definitely check it out.

Um, yeah, no, I love that. And thank you so much for your transparency. I think it just goes to show that as business owners, no matter what, like, no matter what level that you’re at, you’re always. Learning. You’re always changing, uh, adjusting, learning new things where you’re being molded, right? Every single time.

And so I love that you were just sharing that as somebody who’s like, like, again, you’ve been in the game, like, you know, very successful entrepreneur and you’re like, I still got to figure out this pricing. Right? Like, I think it’s such an important, important thing to share. So thank you for that. Okay. So on podcast, we now do rapid fire questions.

I know. So I’m like, let me, uh, which we might have already touched on some of the conversation, but, and I’m trying to get better at it. It’s so funny ’cause my editors will be like, this is not rapid fire anymore. I’m like,

Ashlyn: yes, it’s . Okay. Then that tells me I need to be concise with my answer.

Akua: No, because I’m always like, well, why?

Like, I’m always like, really? Oh my gosh. Please do tell. And so it’s somebody, they were like, it’s not rapid fire anymore. I’m like, it is. It, it, it’s, but it’s, but it’s . Okay, so here we go. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Gulp. If you were pricing a product like a service in a highly competitive market, what’s one tactic you’d use to stand out?

Ashlyn: See how I can max, max, max, max, max out value. So I would look and see what are other people doing and then how can I prove myself even more of an expert or a deliverer. I think a lot of us, a lot of us forget that the point of an entrepreneurship role, like we’re solving people’s problems. So by just like.

Adding or baking in stuff that doesn’t solve Pete like solve their problem solve their problem And so I think like that’s I would just like Obsess with figuring out what their problem is and then build to deliver on that. I’ll sit. Sorry now I’m not turning in this since you’re rapid fire

Akua: Still good

Ashlyn: I think a lot of us build the thing and then try to ship it out and I really like cutting how you were talking about You built your Course you, you did the beta, you figured it out and then now you’re going to ship that.

That is how I love approaching. I’m going to say product development, but it would be service development too. Like I let listen, listen, listen, Bill. So I said, I’ll even write the sales page first. I love doing that. Write your sales page first, right? And then go build the thing that you promise because you heard people and you’re, you’re writing from what you heard.

Then say, I need this, this, this, this, this. Okay. So smile and nod and say, I mean, Theoretically and say, okay, I can deliver on these points and then go build the thing to fill that. Oh, it just had love. I’ve done it both ways and it always feels better. This, uh,

Akua: that way. Yeah. Because then also too, it’s kind of like your anchor, it keeps you anchored because again, like building my core, like I, there were times I strayed and I don’t know.

And the beta helped so much, but even too, though, like even before you test out a product or a service, that is still such a great way where like, okay, then it also helps you like nail down of like what worked and what didn’t work when you started off with. Sales page. Cause then like, again, it keeps you anchored of like, this is exactly the value that you’re creating.

So you’re creating, like you’re, you’re creating the systems, the mechanisms, whatever it is to give that value. And so I think it’s, that’s such a, Oh, that’s a unique way. Okay. I love that. And that’s something I’m definitely going to consider now for my next, well, I was going to say products, but what about if it’s a digital product?

What would you change? I would

Ashlyn: probably do the same thing. I would say the second thing that I would say is I would caveat it and say stay streamlined. Their business in a box courses or like do it all jackknife products or services just are not it anymore. Solve a very specific acute problem really well.

And stay on, and that’s hard to do because for example, digital product, when you’re building a course, you want to add in this bonus and that bonus and like stay on, stay on message, stay on that problem. And that’ll make it stand out in the market more because there’s the dilution is not, not a thing.

It’s that. It messes. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. Oh my God. You are making this rapid fire. Everything. Okay. All right. So we, you said this earlier, but I want to know the number. Be real. Okay. How much did you charge for your first offer? Like when you think of what was the number?

Ashlyn: I mean, I was charging like 150 an article to write anything, anything you would ask me for.

Akua: Really?

Ashlyn: Yeah. Like I need a, I need an about page. I need an article. I would write articles for magazines. I would write. I would write 80 a blog. What are you? Would it even be 80? It might’ve been 80 for a package of like four blogs. Wow. Oh yeah. You named it. I would do it. That’s how I wound up in the position my first year where I was like, I, I worked seven days a week.

Yeah. I was exhausted. I had, I can’t even remember how many clients I had that first year. Way too many. And I, my husband and I, at the end of the year, he was like, we cannot do this. Like you’re not, we are, we are not a single income family. We just got married. We need your paycheck. In fact, and it was, it was not working.

So. Oh

Akua: my goodness. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. That, that was good. Okay. Now we did talk about this earlier, but how often should entrepreneurs raising their prices? I know we talked about the flags, but how often?

Ashlyn: I would say a good every year. Look and see every two years. You need to probably look and look at those rates.

Akua: Okay. Honest thoughts on psychological pricing, you know, with like the 9 99 instead of $10. What are your honest thoughts on that? I

Ashlyn: love it. I think you’ll see either uh, and there and you’ll find a psychological argument to back up either one. I like the nine. I think I end a lot of prices in nine. I also think that saying a good round number, people like as well, I’ve kind of come more to where I do use round numbers.

Mm-hmm . I also will say this on pricing because like when you’re building, especially like a digital offer and you’re giving the value point. Of like all the different individual pieces, make sure that you’ve sold something at that price. Like, have you sold that thing at that price point before? Like, don’t inflate these prices or pull them out.

Like you have to, especially now with the FTC stepping in and what the hell they did last year, you need to be able to show like that thing is worth 97 because I’ve sold it at 97 or I’ve sold a very similar offer at 97 before. Um, so yeah, I go, I I’ll do sevens and nines and then sometimes I’ll do round numbers.

Akua: Okay. Okay. But I like that you shared that though, because I think again, it’s just like talking about like ethically pricing, because I do think I found myself this earlier is that I, social transparency, I would like get into scarcity and I’m like, well, I want to make more money. So I would, you know what I mean?

I just love that you shared that of like, just wanting to highlight of, okay, business owners, like don’t inflate the price. If it’s something that you’ve never offered at that number before, right? Again, like what you said earlier, like really leading from a place of value and then ethically and like. When you are leading from a place of service and being ethical about your pricing, like it’s going to pay off for you in the long run.

So I love that you, you shared that. All right. Last one. What’s one thing you think business owners should stop apologizing for when it comes to pricing?

Ashlyn: Profit margin. Like, duh, you’re not, this is not, you, I don’t know this concept that like, I shouldn’t profit. Then why the heck are you in business? Like then just give it for free or just do a trade.

Like, no, you, you have to have a profit margin. You are in business to make a profit. That is the point of business. You don’t, it’s not, you don’t need to be vilified for that. You don’t need to be, Michael Hyatt has a book called entrepreneurs will save the world. Like you are giving by giving other people, job opportunities by giving incredible value to people with your products and service.

You are giving like you. Like to solve problems, you’re solving problems. Like don’t, this idea that you shouldn’t make money as well is so weird. His book like tackles that really well. But don’t apologize for like having some profit margin in there. If anything, I feel like you should be that, like, if you’re a creative visionary.

Thinker and you love people like yes Then you’re kind of the person that I want money in your hands because I feel like you’re gonna use it Well and steward it ethically and so, um, yeah, I don’t think we need to apologize for that.

Akua: Oh my gosh I love that. Oh, that was so fun. That was such a good Rapid fire cuz it’s a rapid fire and my listener be like what?

Like you’re being like, I like, this is rapid fire. No, this was amazing. I have loved it. Okay. So every question that we’d love to end each episode with is what does having an unbreakable business mean to you?

Ashlyn: I can walk away. I can walk away and go play with my kids and summertime’s coming up as we’re recording this.

And I’m like, I just, they’re not little long and I’m seeing it. I have three kids and I, I just, I loved. The blessing of being able to build a business where I can walk away. And I see that more and more every year.

Akua: I love that. Oh, Ashlyn. Thank you for still coming on the show. No, I’m excited to see you next month at the Creative Educator Conference.

It’s going to be so good. It’s going to be perfect. Um, and I know it’s going to be amazing. And I just thank you so much for being here and stopping by and just sharing your wisdom with us. It’s always so fun to have you here.

Ashlyn: It is mutual. It’s such an honor. I’m very grateful. Thank you.

Akua: Yes. Okay. So people that want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Ashlyn: Yes. My website’s Ashlynwrights. com and Ashlyn S. Carter’s my Instagram handle. Those are pretty much the two spots I hang out.

Akua: Yes. And also to y’all, sign up for her newsletter because I am, it is so good. You guys, I read her emails every single, every single time you send, I always open them. Because it’s just, it’s filled with so much value.

High pack, like, like literally it’s. It’s so, so good. So I’m going to just put a shameless plug in there to sign up for her email list y’all because you’re going to get really, really good value. So

Ashlyn: I appreciate that full transparency. That’s one of those things I’m like, I really need to get this to where it doesn’t take an full day, but it does, but it’s fun.

I love it. I mean, but

Akua: it’s so good. So yes, Ashlyn, thank you. Thank you so much again. And for everybody tuning in until next time,

thanks for tuning into unbreakable business. If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with Someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too, until next time, keep building, keep growing and stay unbreakable.